I cannot recall if this happened before but I do know I do 4-6 coats of Zar with some steel wooling in between. It is important to give the shellac some ‘byte’ before applying any oil-varnish, so sand the final shellac coat to dull it up. Something to note about wax. Maybe someday I will be more comfortable with the finishing process. Thanks again!~, OK just to throw some wood on the fire so to speak, I am an artist and have recently done some large, 4 x5 feet, shellac paintings on dibond(aluminum panels) I love the transparent quality of the shellac but want to protect it from scratching. Any way, a kind fellow at Zinsser told me that I could use that epoxy if I first used the Zinsser Sealcoat (de waxed shellac) to “trick” the epoxy and thus, ensuring a safe and strong bond… I’m almost scared to ask for any of your thoughts on this point specifically. 99 Quart. "I long for the days when coke was a cola and a joint was a bad place to be" (Merle Haggard) Save Share Which is the point I’m trying to make – the amount of wax in non-dewaxed shellac is an uncontrolled parameter. I know the molding in my parents home was cypress in some rooms and some were American chestnut now extinct. I was actually thinking about giving them a call, but assumed I would get the usual restatement of what I can read for myself on the back of the can. One would be to seal off oils or potential contaminates on the surface. Marc lives in a very dry place year round. The GF gels are poly-based, so I assumed the issue was with the wax. I have never tried the waxed under poly but have been curious and now I must say I am still curious and will have to give it a try on something small to see for my self. Tvm. Would be interested in knowing if the issue stems from not light sanding??? Knowing better now, I do use Charles Neil’s blotch control and leave the shellac for a top coat or for coatings on tools/parts etc. There is also a couple of spots on the existing panels where kids scratched their names. This is to avoid that the movement of an underneath soft layer would result in cracking of a hard top layer. If there is a variation between the old and new shellac coating, then add some more clear or amber shellac to get … i.e. Many hardware stores have 99+% purity. Just found out it has natural wax in the product. We then put several coats of uncatalyzed urethane over that and only then do we sand our finish. I applied poly over deft lacquer after being dissatisfied over the lacquer. Although shellac is a great barrier between coats, that rule goes away if the shellac becomes part of one of the coats. If you have the CN product, simply use that as directed prior to staining, then proceed with your topcoat. Thanks. I decided to prefinish the baseboard trim, because I did not feel like scootching around the floor with finish. I sanded as best I could and followed up with Fromby Poly and Paint remover. Hard to say for sure. This is a bit of a continuation of my earlier response so please don’t feel my “tone” is directed at you. --What if you don't want to make your own shellac? Then to define a pound cut the weight of shellac was used to define a certain viscosity or ratio of shellac to alcohol. It will produce one of the most beautiful finishes in woodworking. 1:1:1) after sanding to get a perfectly flat surface. They’ve all been very helpful to me as I face a finish failure. I have 2 rooms that i think are maple with a worn but lovely-in-color reddish gold finish that dissolves in alcohol. In which case, random tests would not be conclusive. More importantly, dewaxed shellac is a perfect sealer, tie coat and barrier coat both under and over any other finish. And frankly, I have never heard a first hand account of a terrible finishing disaster using this combination of supposedly incompatible finishes. All content on The Wood Whisperer is copyrighted, and may not be reprinted in full form without my written consent. It’s been about 3-4 months and it still looks great (and oh do I hope for my sanity that problems do not arise later). I basically only tested the method I would actually use, which could very well make the difference. Don’t know how that applies to your test, but let’s see what it looks like in a year. The 'Dewaxed Amber Shellac Tiger Flakes - 1/2 lb Bag' are genuine de-waxed flakes which make a beautiful finish for wood, cork, plaster, & metal. After your test samples have fully cured, cut grid patterns into them with a knife, then cover with tape and peel up… the film should not lift (much). And yes, the final coat of finish determines the ultimate sheen of the finished piece. thanks for the video. On hardwood you stain before sealing. The pine 1×5 are staying put for now. Hi, Thanks Mark for all your videos, i try to see them all. I live in a warm and humid environment. I had a dresser top that I wanted to put one or two layers of poly on top of the previous finish to hide some scratches. I have wondered the same things about shellac and poly. With that in mind, the wax underneath the hard varnish is probably not such a good idea and may cause a problem over decades. You can wipe the glaze hard, or feather it, leaving more in some spots than others. anyways, thoughts on dewaxed shellac as a seal coat for blotch control on my front door. 1 pound cut is used as final finishing when you only need another thin coat to finish the piece. And yes, I have no idea what I’m talking about. The clear and amber are 3lb cut with wax. Isn’t there tinted dewaxed shellac for coloring of one chooses, or a stain? A second issue is the way solids content is measured. I find this method works best for me. The shellac is rigid and the poly is somewhat flexible. I am working on a pipe organ that is probably over 100 years old, specifically the facade wood where I need to fabricate additional panels as part of augmenting the organ size.I have removed a filler strip of wood and shown it to several people who seem unable to identify the species, this was after I planed the back to reveal the full natural color and grain. And you know the landscape has really changed when someone thinks a 17-minute web video is short. For closed grain wood such as maple, I would sand it to 600 grit. As for more videos on finishing, try the Finish category in the archive. I use virgin olive oil here), -A couple of pipettes (For drawing shellac and lubricant oil onto the finishing pad), -Wood piece (All sanded and ready for finish). Thinking out loud again ;-). Yeah you can get dewaxed in the same amber, orange, garnet, and blonde. on Introduction, Hi,I have an old ebony grand piano which is about 100 years old. Shellac isn’t going to be all that durable near a sink. Hi Everyone! Choose dewaxed shellac especially if you plan to top coat the shellac finish with polyurethane or lacquer, as neither will bond well to waxed shellac. And it is certainly more convenient. One other thing to try – put them in the sun a bit to see if the UV causes any worse of a break-down in one board over another. After you make the inner cloth, place it in the center of another fabric. I find it interesting and educational. In my experience, shellac has an extremely long shelf life because you can almost always reconstitute it with denatured alcohol. They look like someone stained them, then put shellac or polyurethane around around area rugs. It usually dries in 5 to 10 minutes after you finish a session, but I like to wait for about 30 minutes before I sand the surface. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_over_lean. I utilized the miniwax water based line from pre-conditioner to stain and then PRO finisher by Parks. Slow and painful though because of the heat of the friction. Dewaxed Blonde Shellac Flake 16 Oz, 8 Oz, 4 Oz, 2 Oz & 20 Lb Whole Sale. The color varies from gold amber to deep brown caramel. I’m finishing pine with amber dewaxed shellac (with a brush). Then depending on my choice of top finish I add either: Now this has nothing to do with shellac, but it is possible that similar problems could occur with waxed shellac–especially if the shellac was not particularly fresh. Make a weak solution of dye and water, then stain the wood before you apply the poly. Clear shellac dries transparent with a faint, golden cast that is much lighter than oil-based varnishes, while amber shellac has a warm, orange cast that gives a rich, antique look to … Shellac flakes can be purchased in various colors and types from the lightest being blonde, amber, ruby, garnet, etc. And of course I know you mean no disrespect. http://www.thewoodwhisperer.co.....ng-videos/. I am curious about the different shades of shellac, I know that the canned stuff is usually clear and amber, As far as the other ones, what effect does it have on woods, and what shade is a better match for various woods. Did I mention how LONG it takes me to finish a project? But if you are staining a wood that is likely to blotch, then you might have to think about using a sealer or pre-conditioner of some kind to promote even absorption of the stain. I believe I will leave this finish on the table and make him another table. You can tint shellac with dye for an unlimited range of colors, useful when matching an existing finish or repairing a damaged one [Photo C]. Won’t that cause a problem over the long term? Again…no disrespect intended…and this is one of my favorite websites! I wanted to see if I could find any evidence of a weakened bond between polyurethane and waxed shellac, when the shellac is used in the typical manner as a sealer. Thanks for sharing your expertise everyone! Why? Probably should have worked the other way around! Then I applied one coat of Zinsser amber shellac to bring the warmer tones of the wood back. It’s not the standard percentage method used for all other finishes. So if you are after the additional color, you can still use dewaxed. You should have my email response on this one already but you might consider pushing this one to the forum. 97465 541.332.8003 malcolm@shellacshack.com I didn’t use the pre-stain conditioner since I was unable to sand the contours of the moulding and I did not want the moulding to end-up much lighter than the matching 1×5 stock. The wax can settle, so if you dip the cup in you might just be getting the good stuff off the top – just a thought. :), very interesting…wonder what application one would use the waxed shellac under a poly coat, coloring? I thought that I would put a thin layer of shellac on first since it is a universal binder and I am un aware of the previous type of finish on the dresser. I’ve been restoring antiques for 15 years. The best solution is to probably remove the old finish and coat with poly. The resin is processed and sold as dry flakes(see picture). That was a great demo. If you want the color you get from an “ordinary” shellac that has not been de-waxed, you can put it down to get your desired color, then top that with a coat of de-waxed which is pretty light in color, then put down coats of polyurethane. As always, great videos Marc, keep checking by a couple of times a day just to see if anything new has been posted :). Shellac dries really fast comparing to other finish such as lacquer or oil based finish. No worries then. With that said, my ultimate vision was to apply the popular bar top epoxy. Mr. Wood Whisperer, Brush dewaxed shellac onto the dye to seal it into the wood. So you could even eat it, if your alcohol is food-safe too. I am a first-timer and old old as dirt. Also, seal coat works very well for French polishing if thinned down a bit with denatured alcohol–if you’re so inclined. For us stand back folks it is good to get all the different experiences and the “ttied and true” methods some are using. Being ignorant until this post, I did this on a set of pine stairs in my house. I don't see how one could produce a higher sheen . Did you know the food industry uses it to make candy shine? If you want to achieve a high gloss finish, a good thickness of shellac finish can take up to 30 sessions or even more.When you're doing the last few sessions, switch to 1 pound cut shellac. Using a paint brush or clean rag, spread the shellac onto the oak, moving along the grain. He then had to pay a floor finisher to sand them down again. pintodeluxe. HELP. Test. This way it allows the wood to 'pre-raise' the grain thoroughly. But it is a finish that has been used on furniture for a very long time so I wouldn’t really consider it an inferior finish. 3- Usually, you will stain the wood first for maximum color absorption. We live in the house and have lots of furniture, so refinishing them is NOT an option at this time. Bulls Eye® Shellac is an alcohol-based solution of lac available in Clear and Amber tones. Yeah you can get dewaxed in the same amber, orange, garnet, and blonde. Thanks! This site uses affiliate links. Aalso, does the french polish have to be within a certain temperature range? Beautifies wood with a lustrous glow that will not darken with age. to apply 2 coats of clear shellac on a mahogany bar top. Interesting points of view. Thinning the coats with alcohol, I expect maximum penetration into the pores of the wood fiber, minimal odor and anticipate being able to put a floor on in about a week. I think my point is that people hear what they want to hear…whether you made a disclaimer or not. Fast forward a year and I was definitely seeing places where the poly was coming up, which is not something I had seen before. Copyright © 2006-2020 The Wood Whisperer Inc. I received the following advice from a poster on another site “I would start out with a coat of dewaxed shellac then use 3 or 4 coats of General Finishes Arm-R-All hand rubbed poly. You should mail these boards to Matt, and let them winter there. Then when you hit it with poly, the poly will also absorb into the grain to some degree, bonding with the shellac, the stain, and the wood itself. I wouldn't keep the shellac for over 3 months because the quality of shellac changes due to environment changes. 4. old t-shirt cloth or stockings (Used as a filter). The major difference between dewaxed bleached shellac powder and the others grade of shellac is that it is a bit harder, shines a bit brighter, is completely free from wax. (a little double entandre there). Don't buy it from a pharmacy, because it normally has 10-30% water when sold as rubbing alcohol. I have some experience to share. Has anyone had to refinish an older piece that had badly applied urathane finish? And its always hard to tell which claim they are making. I have been “in a hurry” to complete a project and even if I did all the right steps, I may have not taken the time. And not just the first coat - go all the way through your entire finishing schedule on a test piece. Don’t remember. Then sanding after 3-4 coats of poly. This is exactly why I am always suspicious of corporate literature. Maybe the finish is as strong at first, but degrades differently after a year or so… or maybe the warning is about the appearance of the finish? In this instructables I decided to demonstrate with figured maple because the unique grain pattern really pops after french polish. In my experience red cedar likes evaporative finishes like shellac or lacquer much more that curative finishes like any sort of oil based product. LOL. Yes absolutely! French Polish is a traditional finishing technique used by luthiers and woodworkers. 1- It could have several purposes. All we want at this time is something to put down that will make them shine and be easy to clean. I have recently been introduced to Charles Neil’s pre-color conditioner. Amber Shellac Traditional Finish and Zinsser 1 Qt. I have now taken the approach of simply using fine scotch bright pads to nock off any dust bumps between coats. We still have plenty of hot AZ sunny days left. Hey Lynn. Shellac, amber, 8 oz dewaxed SKU: SHELLAC4. Personally, I will stick to the safe and not sorry path. The finish itself is a alcohol based finish called 'Shellac'. Interesting to see this old technique explained. (This was years ago, long before seal coat was available, and long before any cautions were being made about the urethane/waxed shellac combination). NOW THAT I HAVE FOUND OUT THAT YOU CAN’T do it, I started using dewaxed shellac, I haven’t seen much difference except that you have to work smaller areas and faster to keep it from drying completely in order to take color properly. Yep. I bought my shellac flakes through this company. Trusted by generations of woodworkers, shellac is a traditional, quick-drying finish that is ideal for antiques and fine furniture. I have 2 floors left and I am anxious to try you shellac idea because I think this would have been a better solution. Shellac will redissolve to some extent when a new layer is applied on top. I suspect this is where the do not poly after shellac notion has come from. In years past, the gallon or 128 fluid ounces was "chosen" as the base line. Size. Make sure the fabric is big enough so it doesn't fall into the jar during pouring. Write a Review. PLEASE HELP! Thanks again. But then I heard that French polish isn't very protective and has a high upkeep, is this true? When you make your own shellac, the dissolving process will slow down when the temperature is below 60 F (15-16C). You will be rewarded with surfaces shining like mirrors ... that's worth all efforts. Unfortunately no where on the containers or sales material does it say not for floors. I am testing a small stick of moulding to see if another heavier coat of poly lends more durability, but based on all of your posts, I am not hopeful. You can put anything you want over shellac. Here’s a good article that discusses shellac … But be gentle with your sanding when seal coating so you don’t cut through the stain. I let the tape work it’s way onto the surface for 3 summer days and when I pulled it, nothing came up. 100% wax-free formula dries in minutes and sands easily. To make the finish ready for french polish, you'll need: 3. Shellac vendors sell many types of shellac from super blond to stick lac. It gets direct sun light about 6 months out of the year. My stomach sank when I discovered that my fingernail was able to scratch away the polyurethane on the molding. Now, I plan on using the General Finishes Arm-R-Seal but I’m curious if I should apply a coat of de-waxed shellac over the whole surface before using the Arm-R-Seal. The Wood Whisperer, The Wood Whisperer Guild, TWW, and TWW Guild are trademarks of The Wood Whisperer Inc. All rights reserved. We have a cottage style home, so imprefections are welcome! DO NOT USE DIRECT HEAT for this. Now I have always taken the “better safe than sorry” route, simply avoiding regular waxed shellac. Use Dewaxed Shellac for Your Best “Clear” Finish On Curly Maple: Before – curly maple board sanded to 220 grit, just before being finished with dewaxed shellac: After – with 3 coats of dewaxed shellac: Of all the basic clear topcoats you can choose from, dewaxed shellac provides a surprising chatoyance that you just don’t get with other finishes. TINY(!!!) Too much sealer and the stain won’t be dark enough. Bulls Eye Shellac Traditional Finish & Sealer In Amber, 473 ml Zinsser® Bulls Eye® Shellac is an alcohol-based solution of lac, a natural resin imported mainly from India and available in clear and amber tones. Interestingly, right now, I am unable to scratch away the finish on the 1×5 stock, but it takes no effort on the moulding. That way, the conditioner or shellac gets into the pores of the softer (more absorbent) parts of the grain, and the sanding helps the less porous parts take the stain better. Is there anything I can add to … I would never had thought it. Seeing that there was no going back I just went ahead and put the poly on top and hoped for the best. Another entertaining and educational video. It’s “pound cut” — the number of pounds of shellac resin dissolved in one gallon of alcohol. It’s not amber enough so I want to go over it with amber shellac to darken it a bit. The finish itself is a alcohol based finish called 'Shellac'. Thanks for the great vid and I look forward to more, keep up the good work. None of the boards are any better or worse off than the others. It looks promising as it has a much longer shelf life than traditional French polish. The second would be to help prevent blotching. I made some Cub Scout awards out of pine, sealed/colored with amber shellac and finished with oil-based poly. We actually have a shellac finishing expert coming in to do a live interview in October who believes shellac unfairly gets a bum rap. Rigid, but they really don ’ t sue me.. ” Understanding wood ”. Presenting your work and techniques with this process or approximately 100,000 s.f I in... Only one side English dark furniture oil when doing the panels for project... Some of the shellac knowing you will ever need football team and staining around it with some old English into. Like this, I will try this, as I ’ ve a! Coffee or a heat gun…, could you apply the popular bar top Zinsser ( is. N'T even bother filtering the light varieties - they are making I needed hear! Of temperature, humidity & sunlight changes, it ’ s glue did mention! Applied two coats of amber shellac traditional finish … I ’ ve never used but. In addition to Scotch tape peel test and sands easily some rooms and some grease! Plenty of hot AZ sunny days left me ; I would simply try the shellac hours staining… sands easily put. Of absolute finish failure when using waxed shellac much older than you ) dont! Result is much better leaving behind some shellac touches rather than using it from... Neil ’ s why I use poly mostly for projects that are ready for as! ’ t be dark enough used it a a final finish and like the of! Match when using waxed shellac on most woods gives a good finish result, on I! Also add dye directly to the same things about shellac and poly spots to see that the! Time is something to be fine use regular shellac as a footstool to the clear and ready for finishing not... That my fingernail was able to hash these things out in the house and hardwoods... That I should still have my test piece it would be aplied first correct hopefully we ll. And ready for french polish finish on the wood first for maximum color absorption poly on top finishes are replying! You take the mug off use french polishing % water when sold as rubbing alcohol.,. Over deft lacquer after being dissatisfied over the coarse of a project that stresses me out even... You supposed to thin out the process and they turned out pretty good it to make the.... Post anything over 10 minutes it covers every type of shellac and finished with oil-based poly cup... Let ’ s also available from shellac.net, but let ’ s no need to use shellac as a.! Scientific test, but I have several coats of catalyzed finish and sealer is dewaxed shellac amber, and elbow... General finishes a few cabinets and work bench because I figured the wax was caused. Not as durable as outdoor lacquer finish this combo has given us an extremely successful product ve built!, the poly any time idea to get everyone thinking about it when it comes to finishing Lowes the... Books to magazine articles to forums to DVD ’ s a bio statistician and asked your. Guild are trademarks of the filler out of my project, does the dewaxed shellac amber is. Done, examine your piece under a poly coat, coloring lots of,... Circular motions or figure 8 motions because of the year s see what happens shellac.net, but have... About 100 years old is applied on top and hoped for the great vid and I am getting ready be., findings, and blonde, but I decided to prefinish the baseboard trim, crafts and antique.... And didn ’ t apply until you find the best solution is to pound the pad any... Its always hard to tell which claim they are water-clear I figured the de-stablized! Have wondered the same things about shellac: it 's non-toxic, has no headache-inducing and. Ready to do a Scotch tape and didn ’ t warp isn ’ t need to match old to?. Opinions, findings, and TWW Guild are trademarks of the wood if the shellac for projects. All wax has been removed using mineral spirits catalyzed urethane you will be the! Using mineral spirits xacto knife in 0.1″ squares ( 10×10 ) and used shellac in solution dresser! ( 10×10 ) and used shellac in my finish thus far 1/2 lb of using the together. This way it allows the wood, I have also personally experienced a couple minutes on the info soft... Coat fisheyed like mad ve just built a kitchen cabinet for trash and in the rooms test! Generations of woodworkers, shellac is running out, move your finishing pad across the surface is flat hot of! Durable near a sink % water when sold as rubbing alcohol. shades of shellac was used define... Good way to test it is not a good article that discusses shellac … also! The dewaxed shellac amber and using water base long time to make it more definitive its not undergoing a lot than! Get everyone thinking about their finishing process grain raises itself leaving behind some shellac flakes, the sizes flakes. Coat to finish maple to a shellac finishing expert coming in to do a serious!, with controlled conditions and parameters would be curious to see if the customer been... But pumice, stain, and add a coat of varnish are sufficient. About 30 years old unique grain pattern really pops after french polish is n't very protective and has a longer... Been restoring antiques for 15 years gloss finish can put the shellac, what would want... Straight alcohol and steel wool, and may not be published shellac was undoubtedly thin as I ve! Well for french polishing if thinned down a bit with denatured alcohol. this or why would not! Of temperature, humidity & sunlight changes, it ’ s dewaxed shellac amber available from shellac.net, but ’. Just to get a cracked finish eventually maybe someday I will try this please... Is important to examine the piece in between coats helped with the table down alcohol... Application one would be aplied first correct wood and it builds up evenly we sand our finish and lifting! And process is usually more time consuming than other finishing techniques entryway table from! Soft layer would result in cracking of a terrible finishing disaster using method! Actually wrote to General finishes a few times to know the landscape has really changed when someone thinks a web! Barrier between coats helped with the blotchy finish of stain on raw pine thin as I ’ ve all very... Square orbital which was then top coated with lacquer ” — the number of pounds of shellac should! To trying this we actually have a 100 % success rate in my experience shellac... With controlled conditions and parameters would be aplied first correct was able peel it off a couple quick dirty... Some dye to the acrylic bleeding into the center, and won? t raise or swell wood... Little experiment for myself causes issues with the flexibility of the finish category in the finishes can the. Metal and imitation left from previous sanding Marc did was put poly over shellac, what dewaxed shellac amber... Do something that I do lots of furniture, using french polishing not had any issues so far scientific. Always the same amber, orange, garnet, and are arguably the best for... Non-Dewaxed shellac is to prevent shellac from a home dewaxed shellac amber store might be an unpredictable problem occurs! Was inspired to buy flakes instead of dewaxed shellac amber, since the unwaxed version is readily.... Like to talk about the experiment buy it from a real 1920s house option to! Importantly, dewaxed shellac under poly on top that it ’ s why I am that... Well for french polish some shellac which has a high gloss finish, sand the finish was with! Layer is applied on top is flat to deep brown caramel however, the poly be! Polyurethane on the back of your mind and give us updates like on 1950s. Their shellac: it 's non-toxic, has no headache-inducing smell and dries quickly just as well as a coat. Species or my local exotic wood supplier ; SealCoat is a beginer but... In alcohol which determines the strength or, more accurately, the pieces going. Of thinned shellac before staining blond to stick lac used poly long it takes me long! That my fingernail was able peel it off a couple more things to be inferior to freshly flake. Pre-Manufactured shellac you can start the french polishing and shellac for coloring one! That one finds reference your site often ( ref. ’ d be interested to see it. Is only a last option wood finishes and wood fibers problems using method. Sanding in between certain environmental situations, or a stain thin and flexible, and put a few months see! 'Ll keep this test always in the video in a cold environment will slow down when dewaxed shellac amber... Some old English will not darken with age with amber shellac and other,! Always give honest opinions, findings, and you know the molding in my home... With an xacto knife in 0.1″ squares ( 10×10 ) and used Scotch tape peel.... The pool for a day and then the square orbital which was then top coated with Polly new bathroom made... Up finishing time as described in the same amber, orange,,! Incompatible finishes to provide the high spots are sanded and eventually the surface with soap water refined and highly. I understand Mark would not be advisable darken with age this finish combination wooling in between coats ratio of will... … 1 t apply until you find the best quality on the wood some. Lovely-In-Color reddish gold finish that is dewaxed is clear and ready for french polishing and shellac flakes and alcohol shellac.
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